Tuesday, November 20, 2012


We know where you weren't, you weren't on the front lines helping to save animals. What was Winograd doing during this disaster while HSUS and others were actually saving animals, he was promoting his book. Yeah, Whiney, that saves a lot of lives.

This is an excellent blog about the failure of Winograd's CAPA program in Delaware and this blog post is required reading in my book. This post is about the brave men and women who were on the front lines and about how Winograd's cronies are condemning them.

I have said it before and I will say it again and again, Winograd is not for the animals, Winograd is for Winograd.


One can also ask how much money did No Kill put into the efforts as well. None that I know of. Winograd tried to pull the old "I will take credit" bit by saying No Kill groups were on the scene. How much money did Winograd send those groups, did he offer grants like HSUS does to help with the additional expenses? Nope. In fact, I will lay odds that his No Kill groups will ask for money from HSUS. And just how does Winograd think we can deal with these disasters without HSUS? He is trying to put HSUS out of business or rather he wants to be Wayne Pacelle actually. Sorry, Whiney, you will never be able to walk in Pacelle's shoes.


Anonymous said...

Very good resource. I have book marked it. It is too sad that CAPA allows a bunch of arm chair activists with no money or effort to second guess so many things based on "likes" they may see on a facebook page with no real data to support their thoughts. I was also glad to see the screen shots and dates of exactlly what no kill was doing during the crisis. Pretty compelling. An interesting aside. Some of the shelters down South and maybe others have begin to put their at risk animals on thier web page so no one can cry foul I did not know this animal needed to be rescued. (Folks animals need to be rescued every day and what happened to the phone?). Interesting enough many no killers and rescues rather than coming to get the animals are arguing they are not really at risk and the shelter should not post them! Anything to avoid actually getting the animal which would solve the problem. The real problem is no kill and the rescues do not have the resources in many cases to get the animals but rather than say that they want to blame some one else. And the shell game continues to the detriment of the animals.

HonestyHelps said...

Anon:48, you might be interested in reading about this shelter that is under attack by some No Kill terrorists. They are all over the internet about this shelter killing an animal when they themselves failed to get the animal out of the shelter. One even video taped a dog being led to the euthanasia room, didn't offer to take it, but made sure to lie about the dog to make it a good story. www.DevoreShelterFriends.blogspot.com

Anonymous said...

Thanks for the info on Devore. Yes, I have seen that strategy used in Texas also. There is an interesting one going on right now. I won't bore you with all the details but an agressive dog that has been in the shelter near a year and has been through numerous training efforts may have to be EU. The interesting part is that the folks saying it will have to be EU are another rescue group who actually took responsibility for the dog! The most ouspoken no kill group knows the dog and when asked to take it just remains silent as do the other no killers that I know see the face book page. Remember they dont want to be on the record as saying no. This same no kill group was trying to bash another Texas shelter who was trying to go no kill on the shelters web site for suggesting they might have to EU a dog for space. An astute poster who knew them asked "since you are a rescue group why don't you take the dog?" Complete silence again. No kill loves to dodge responsibility. A quick check of the rescues facebook page shows business back to normal as they continue to adopt out the fuzzy wuzzies every weekend. (at a profit I might add) I guess if there is a small victory here it is that in some circumstances some shelters have been able to get a rescue group to step up and actually take responsibility (key word responsibility) for a problem dog and low and behold in 6 months or so they are beginning to sound like shelter employees as reality hits them. It has been interesting to watch the reactions of some of the more naive no kill followers when it suddenly dawns on them that geez that is just what the "old" shelter told us but this is the "new" shelter rescue group. It has also been interesting to watch several well meaning groups post at risk dogs on their facebook pages and to watch the lack of responses other than an ocassional that dog is cute or I would take it "but". Sad but a learning process for some of the reality of trying to place too many animals. At some point they may figure out that you can change staff and rename a shelter as much as you want but the fundamental problem of too many animals remains.

Anonymous said...

This is off topic and you may not want to post but I have been thinking about why what is obvious to some of us is not obvious to others and why no kill can continue to influence politicians. Having seen shelters under attack I have come to the conclusion that many do not do a very good job of communicating to the ones the no kill group tries to influence. Mainly the politicians. No kill seems to lever on the emotion of killing but ignores the reality of preventing it other than to blame the shelter for not having enough marketing. I wonder if shelter magement were to take a more proavtive approach and educate the politicans on yes lowering EU rates is good and here is what it will take to do it (an actual analysis like most cities do for anything) and then see if the politicians want to buy in with tax dollars etc. Given some of the no kill history now on the books it would seem like tht would be a resonable approach to looking at the whole picture not just the emotion part.

HonestyHelps said...

Anon:02 Animal Control is probably the most hated dept. in government and it always is the number one agency for complaints. Probably 98% of those complaints are from emotions. The public doesn't understand that AC has to abide by the law and when AC does something you don't like, change the law, don't condemn AC for following it.

I don't wait until something happens. I educate my elected officials while they are still candidates for the office. We are always reactive when we need to be proactive. Educate when there aren't problems. I always say that just because someone is elected to office, that doesn't make them God like in knowledge. It is up to the constituents to educate the officials. It is our job and too many neglect it until it is too late. Ever heard of first impressions? Don't let the No Killers get the jump on that, you be the first impression.

Anonymous said...

Yep, I think you are right on. I fear too many AC organizations or at least the ones I know as I do not want to speak for all, wait until it is fairly late in the game and then their attempts appear self serving or defensive. Hopefully any AC organizations reading this will take note and make some attempt to bring their politicians up to speed proactively on the merits, problems, costs, stratgies etc. of attempting to go no kill or even in lowering the EU rate. I know in the case I saw the no kill advocate was actually the primary source of information for the politicians and most of his data was wrong but was never challanged. Unfortunately those earlier links with the descision makers had never been established.

Anonymous said...

Another No Kill "shelter" busted for abuse. They were keeping these poor dogs in crates all day and night and they never even got a breath of fresh air.

Lab rescue.

They also were buying puppies from PUPPY MILL BROKERS to sell.

No Kill and puppy mills, hand in hand.

The vet, some Heather Baker DVM was apparently colluding with this abuse and supporting it, according to witnesses.


Anonymous said...

I know you have some concerns with the recent LA ban on selling pets in retail stores unles from a rescue or shelter. However it is interesting to note that the Facebook page "I hate dog breeders" now has over half as many likes as the No Kill Facebook page has even though it has only been in existance a short period of time. And it does not sell books and so far no family pictures from the owner of the page, lol. Do I see the worm turning to actually focus on the real problem?

HonestyHelps said...

Anon:12, my concerns in LA is that the breeders are getting the best end of the stick.

It is noticeable that the Whiney is losing support fast. Plus probably half his likes are duplicates because they usually have their rescues, their names, their campaigns, on separate pages. He's losing support fast, not that he really had any. According to his 990s, he's never had much support to begin with. I'm sure most of his support has come under the table, if you know what I mean.

Anonymous said...

As someone who lives in a coastal community ravaged by Sandy, THANK YOU for this post. All animal rescues were done by the local animal control - none of the big name organizations were anywhere near here. And several dogs and cats drowned in their homes when people left them behind.

HonestyHelps said...

Anon:57 it's so sad to learn of those drowned pets. How could anyone leave their pet behind is beyond me. Yes, I do know that it is the courage of animal control that saves lives in these disasters. No Kill just sits back in their warm homes, on their computers and condemns the very ones out there doing the work. What a disgusting group of people No Killers are.

Anonymous said...

HSUS gave CASH GRANTS and supplies to those smaller shelters and animal control for rescue, and HSUS disaster response was involved in doing search and rescue with local groups as well as setting up emergency shelters and reuniting pets to their people.

(If you are interested, you can get training and join their disaster response team. The more people that participate, the more animals can be helped.)

No Kill did NOTHING, NADA.

Winograd was out grubbing for money shilling his business propaganda and attacking people so he could try to steal more money away from pets. The other No Kill maniacs were just harassing people online and ignoring Sandy, the usual.

The AKC, Winograd's puppy milling friends, were too interested in lobbying for puppymills and dog fighters and planning elitist dog shows. They do NOTHING but focus on profits.

Anonymous said...

I shared the story about HSUS rescuing animals on my Facebook page. I have several "friends" on there which are to varying degrees involved in the no kill movement. Interestingly enough no one comment or like even though I know they saw it as they were continuing to comment about the most recent cute puppy picture. Interesting though too when one of the leaders of no kill in this part of the woods posts book selling information from the no kill page he also gets very little comment. Even tried a "naming contest" to get a free sigend copy of friendly fire. Had a grand total of three entries. Now understand not one year ago a group of 20 plus showed up at a city council meeting to bash the shelter and lobby for no kill. Me thinks that most at that point were just naive and has time goes on they are not sure what to think. I will take that as evidence that most are beginning to wake up and see what no kill really is. They have a heck of a marketing program but no substance and flawed logic. To late for some organizations but hopefully with some poor history on the books the idea of less EU will take a turn towards reality and for the better.

Anonymous said...

I think the rescue community has finally started to wake up and realize that No Kill benefits breeders and hoarders (and the rich No Kill "leaders" that pocket the money to support their rich lifestyles)

Rescuers are being used as slaves by the breeders to clean up the overflow of TOO MANY PETS BEING BRED by way too many breeders that are unregulated

If no one deals with the spay neuter issue, and the too many breeders breeding too many pets issue, then the pets are DEAD and No Kill then ends up only enabling the torture and death.

No Kill doesn't address spay neuter. In fact they oppose spay neuter. What does that tell you?

Anonymous said...

Interestingly enough no kill does speak to spay and neuter in their program. But they never advertise it and never promote it. They do however as many know heavily advertsie the "no pet over population story". Consequently that is what the public sees. Pretty slick if you think about it. Include spay neuter in your program but in public push the opposite. Wa la they are covered on both fronts. Too sad.

Anonymous said...

Interesting story in the Huffington Post (red flag?) about "Massive Online Puppy Mill Industry Exposed". Basically a survey was done by a non profit whose name I do not recognize. Bottom line they showed data on their estimates of the number of puppies for sale on line at any given time. Was huge and spoke negatively of the breeders. Now that should throw a wrench in the no over population story and the consistent denial that the public at large who buys these dogs have no responsibility per no kill. Has to be all the shelters fault I guess.

HonestyHelps said...

Actually Anon:10 it would play in No Kill's favor. NK would say just look at all those people needing a pet. And would blast shelters for not grabbing that business. Right, shelters advertise, etc.

If NK would support shelters positively, that would help adoptions more than anything. People are turning to breeders because of all the bad publicity about shelters that NK has created. NK is turning the public away from shelters if anything, and right into the waiting arms of breeders. Now just whose side is NK on, not the shelter animals.

Anonymous said...

The online puppy mill sales don't work in Winograd's favor and he knows it, but they are one of the groups hiring him to protect their interests.

His problem is that the AKC profits from them through registrations and the AKC lobbies to protect them from regulation.

But online puppy sale dealers bite the AKC and Winograd in the ass

All those dogs are sold unaltered and they breed in the new home, and the offspring gets dumped at the shelters.

Also whim buys through online sales are most of the sales. They are shipped to buyer as cute puppies, then they get a little older and dumped in the shelters and rescue has to clean up.

Online website puppy sales are where most of the pit bulls filling the shelters come from, for example, through craiglist and puppy find and all those places.

These online puppy dealers are also tax cheats. THEY aren't paying to care for their dumped dogs and the offspring of their dumped dogs.

They get Winograd to convince the gullible rescuers to spend rescuers money and time cleaning up after the breeders!

Anonymous said...

You maybe right in that no kill will try to spin that to their favor with the premis that shelters should grab that business. That said I don't think most people think about it that deep and recoil at the idea of breeders and see them as being in direct competition with the shelters and ask why are we breeding if we are also killing. That is going to be a hard spin for no kill.

Anonymous said...

Did you see on dogsbite.org blog, the pit bulls and rottweiler, killing people, all backyard breeders selling puppies online, litter after litter.

Not regulated, the dogs they sell and their offspring getting stuffed into shelters all over the country.

More and more bred, rescue can't keep up with the deluge from the breeders.

One had a fake rescue that was basically selling the breeders dog, posing as a rescue.

no kill imbeciles ranting about animal control, but it is breeders screwing rescue and the dogs over

Winograd Scam man tells dumb rescuers "look the other way when it comes to breeders" and "forget about spay neuter" and the whole mess gets worse worse worse worse