Wednesday, April 14, 2010

And You Think KCDogPoop is Nuts, Look at This!!

http://www.indybay.org/newsitems/2010/04/14/18644737.php?printable=true

Nathan Winograd talks birds, cats and Nazis
by Squiggly the cat
Wednesday Apr 14th, 2010 6:47 PM
April 13, 2010 Nathan Winograd a so called "NoKill" guru gave a talk at the LA County Bar Association about birds, cats and TNR (trap, neuter, return of cats to outdoor feral colonies). As an animal law student and cat lover I thought I would learn about the issues, get some CE credit and eat some Vegan food. Instead I was forced to listen to two hours of Winograd rabble rousing and spewing hate speech about environment groups such as Audubon. He insisted that they were just kitten killing Nazis. Besides that the food was 45 minutes late and there were no forks.

The audience consisted of maybe five lawyers there to get CE credit and 60 older cat ladies. They treated Winograd as if he were the messiah coming to save kittens. They hissed and boo'd every time he mentioned the "enemy." They giggled and mewed in delight when he talked about the "TNR revolution" that will save all the cats in the world. I felt like I was in a Baptist church where the priest has a constant back and forth with the church goers.

Winograd's talk and power point presentation started off by calling the Humane Society of the United States (HSUS) and all animal shelters "killers." His believer's hissed and boo'd at the enemy on cue. He then started throwing out false and unreferenced statements to "prove" his points. He stated that "cats don't hurt the environment. TNR actually solves all the problems that the bird people say it creates. Even the health department endorses TNR. The only TNR hold-outs are the environment and bird groups." More hissing and growling from the crowd of angry cat ladies.

The talk was supposed to be about a case entitled Urban Wildlands et al vs the City of Los Angeles. It was supposed to deal with the legal implications of doing city-wide and endorsed TNR without a California Environmental Quality Act (CEQA) environmental review. Urban Wildlands had sued the City of LA because they were doing TNR without doing the study. They stated feral cat colonies harm the environment. The environment groups won the lawsuit. Nathan Winograd here is now trying to intervene in the lawsuit to try to change the verdict. He lost his first round in court but of course he doesn't mention that at the meeting. I had to look it up online after class. He does state that his case is weak because local TNR people did not intervene sooner. He said if he loses, it will be on their heads. If he wins, he deserves all the glory as the one true god of cats.

Instead of talking about the lawsuit he spent the first hour and a half attacking everyone who does not agree with him. HSUS is the devil. LA Animal Services are murderers. The environment groups eat newborn kittens alive. Okay, I added that last part but I bet he had to bite his tongue to keep from saying that. He was on a roll.

He didn't let facts or common sense stand in his way. Out of one side of his mouth he said "domestic feral cats are identical to African wild cats. They are supposed to be in the wild." Yes, in AFRICA, not in the US in parks, shopping mall parking lots and wildlife sanctuaries eating endangered bird eggs. His minions didn't seem to mind or care that he contradicted himself. They meowed in unison "you're right!"

He went on to say that "cats belong outdoors. It's better for them. Indoor cats get fat, get diabetes and die." He followed it up by saying "if you live next to a freeway of course, don't let your cat out." No one seemed to notice the hypocrisy of his statements. I'd rather have my cat alive and indoors then killed by a dog or run over by a truck outdoors. I'm sure my cat Squiggly would agree. And FTR he's not fat.

The environment groups' main concerns are feral cats killing birds and other wildlife. Winograd said that birds make up "only 5% of a cat's diet. Cats actually weed out over populated birds. They are assisting Darwin with evolution." I don't think the birds feel the same way about it. The bird groups definitely do not. If my neighbor's dog's diet was "only" made up of 5% kittens, I would have a problem with that.

There have been many independent peer reviewed research studies which show that TNR colony cats eat birds and wildlife, negatively affect bird populations, spread disease and contaminate water supplies. TNR was supposed to be a way in which the population of feral cat colonies would go to zero within one generation or about seven years. Instead the colonies have grown as people continue to dump cats and not all cats get neutered. Despite this Everest sized mountain of research Winograd said ALL of the researchers are just lying. "They have an agenda. They are intellectually dishonest. They are masquerading as science." He cites nothing to support his theory of mass lying among many researchers in many different countries. The cat ladies didn't care. They mewed in agreement. I think I even heard some purring.

His next argument made me hold back the chuckles. He said "some birds are killed when they fly into windows. Should we outlaw windows? Should we remove all windows?" Um, Winograd, death by windows is not the issue. Death by cats is the issue. Using Winograd-logic, some cats fall off cliffs. Should we level the earth? Some cats are hit by cars. Should we get rid of all cars? His lack of logic didn't matter as the cat ladies meowed "you're right!"

To show how "unfair" the bird groups were being he said "what about worms and caterpillars? Shouldn't we save them from birds?" I felt like I was at a debate for three year olds. He continued with "cats are just the scapegoats for the damage caused by man." Let me get this right. A man went into his backyard, killed and ate a bird, stuffed the feather's in a cat's mouth then posted that photo on his Facebook page with the word "murderer" under it?

His next argument had me scratching my balding head. He said "natural selection is survival of the fittest.That is what cats are doing. They are better suited to survive in these areas than the native wildlife. It's wrong to label them 'alien.' It's inhumane to get rid of them, and it doesn't work."

So if I were to buy some bears, release them in a local park, Winograd would not have a problem if they killed and ate everyone. He thinks that would just be "natural selection." Of course if a bear ate a kitten, he would call the bear a "murderer" and send his cat ladies to claw it to death.

One last little illogical bit of Winograd speak. He said the environment groups state that cats could give people rabies. Winograd says that is not the case. Based on Winograd logic and total lack of evidence, he said "cats should actually worry about getting rabies from us." More giddy kitty laughter from the forum.

His next comment was very irksome. I'm sure the people whom he labeled will not be pleased. As a Jew whose grandparents were in the Nazi concentration camps, these words were way below the belt. He said "environmental groups want to protect one species over another. Doesn't that remind you of the Germans in WW II who wanted to protect their own and exterminate the others?" He basically called the environmental groups Nazi's. The cat ladies of course all loudly growled, "They're Nazi's! Nazi's!"

I was actually hoping to learn a little bit about CEQA and animal law but unfortunately he talked about kitties and Nazi's so much that there wasn't any time left. You could tell who were just lawyers there for some CE credit and food. They had uncomfortably puzzled looks on their faces as they quickly exited the room. Some even left during his class. They came to get some CE credit and instead were forced to listen to the ranting of a lunatic and hate speech. I really hope the LA County Bar Association vets their speakers better in the future.

Signed, Squiggly the cat (I hear Winograd likes to threaten to sue anyone who doesn't agree with him so I had my cat type this out for me)

15 comments:

Anonymous said...

Both of them under the guise of animal lovers are nothing more than a pack of thieves, robbing the life out of the animals!! There's something wrong with people who can't see the suffering they cause. Would you call these two psychopaths? I do.

Anonymous said...

That man is really that insane. Most people just don't know it because they don't go to his "seminars." His seminars nowadays are no more than "everyone is the enemy. I am the only one who cares for animals just like you. Please, buy my book, donate money and I will kiss your ass and tell you whatever you want. I'm all for feral cats, dogs, pigs. I believe shelters should never kill an animal even if they create a mountain of animals 18,000 feet high."

HonestyHelps said...

I agree with both of you. Sick, evil, vile men they are. Just continue to fight, the truth will prevail. Also, I had a report that the Whino looks very bloated or fat. One doesn't get fat from being a vegan. Maybe his Karma is catching up with him and he needs to see a doctor. Karma will get you every time and his is well overdue.

Anonymous said...

He's becoming a full blown terrorist right in front of our eyes.

HonestyHelps said...

Yeah, and now there is a law regarding being a terrorist, he needs to watch himself. He's too stupid to care.

Anonymous said...

You have to wonder why, if he says he cares about animals, he doesn't go after the truly horrible shelters that are out there. The answer to that is money. He goes where he thinks the money is. That's his game. It's not because he cares about animals, he cares only about himself. Bet he was the geek kid that no one wanted to be friends with and even his own dog didn't like him. So this is his vengence on everyone. Making fools of the gullible/mentally ill and making the shelter animals suffer more than need be. He suffers from the short man syndrome most assurdly.

HonestyHelps said...

And from what I hear, the fat man syndrome too now. How does one get chubby eating only veggies? I bet he's an underground Big Mac supporter.

cravendesires said...

nothing says "i'm a super important big shot genius" like having an audience of creepy crazy old cat ladies hang on your every word.

i can't wrap my head around the kooks like rinalia and winograd, the vegan animal rights nuts that think it is okay for pits to kill poodles but not okay for humans to kill pits and it is okay for cats to kill birds but not okay for human to kill cats.

too bad they didn't spike the seminar buffet with B-12.

HonestyHelps said...

Plus his lies because he is now blaming the TNR people for the loss of the lawsuit. And a good many have turned against him because they did try to get him to add his name to the original lawsuit TWICE and he turned them down. All that is coming out too.

Another instance was when the breeders hit Long Beach because LB had an anti-breeding ordinance. The breeders had convinced the powers that be to repeal the ordinance by their threatening to withdraw a major dog show. The pet advocates asked Winograd to help them fight this and he not only refused but became nasty to them. He lost followers then, people who had paid good money to attend his convention right before this happened.

What does he care if he pisses off the humane community, he has the breeders to support him. He likes them better because they have money. In fact, the breeders are the ones trying for legislation to force shelters to use his program. He'll rot in hell for what he has and is doing.

Anonymous said...

"The pet advocates asked Winograd to help them fight this and he not only refused but became nasty to them."

Because they had no idea that Winograd had gotten involved with a lobbyist FOR animal torturer profiteers- Rick Berman http://
www.
sourcewatch
.org/
index.
php?title=
Center
_for_
Consumer
_Freedom


If you've noticed, the AKC breeders, puppy mill breeders, dog fighters, and the rest all link to Consumer Freedom.

And Consumer Freedom is involved with Patti Strand, who runs NAIA, Brent's friend.

http://
www.
sourcewatch
.org/
index
.php
?title
=Patti_
Strand

Berman also lobbies for Petland, the AKC registration money-linked pet store chain connected to Missouri's Hunte Corporation, the puppy mill broker.

Just before Winograd's book release, Consumer Freedom suddenly was issuing press releases for him and doing his public relations work, and promoting him directly with their "members." NAIA, through Consumer Fredom, did the same, and Patti Strand and her AKC friends started strongarming other breeders into picking up Winograd as THEIR leader and to hide their financial-interest protecting behind his facade of "humane" which is all a big fake.

Winograd's true interests have nothing whatsoever to do with humane treatment of animals. He's no vegan animal rights nut at heart. He has egomania issues, and when he first entered the scene he thought he could drop right into the less powerful, mostly-female humane world and push women around and get them to worship him as a great leader.

He also thought he could cash in, and the law career wasn't exactly doing too well.

He thought the humane world was open season for his manoevering, and he thought he was crafty enough to do what he wanted with humane world people.

It didn't work, because he advocates for hurting animals, AND because a lot more men are involved in the humane world now, as well as sharp, smart women who know a conner when they see one.

So about all he attracted was the marginal crazies, like the ones in this meeting. They don't have money, and they turn on their leaders in a flash.

Someone hooked him up with Rick Berman and Consumer Freedom.

And since Winograd has the intelligence of a flea, he fell for it. Of course, I don't think it took much persuasion because the bank account was empty, to the point of Winograd admitting in an interview that his father-in-law was bitching about how little money he made, and why couldn't Winograd basically just be a man and go back to the law career and make some money to support his family with!

So now Winograd is on the Dirty Dole, and he has the prong collar around his neck, and his handlers and leaders take him where they want. He does what he is told to do now, and they tell him what he can talk about and what he can't. When you hook up with the Dark Side, they expect total control of their subjects.

(and the animal rights vegan thing is the attempted window dressing to try to fool the ones who don't look behind the curtain to see fat, greasy Rick Berman and his AKC elderlies)

Felony said...

A few years ago I had a conversation with one of these kooky cat ladies. We were talking about what I feed my dogs. I cook for them and they get a fair amount of eggs. Kooky cat lady said, "Don't you worry about their cholesterol?" I stood in speechless disbelief for a moment and then said, "a dog's diet is pretty much based on cholesterol." This chat took place outside of her home which housed 2 dogs and 20 cats, which I could smell from several feet away of the closed up home. NO ONE should be able to own 20 twenty cats or 10 cats, probably not even 5 cats. Another little conversation I had with her, she was retelling a conversation "I told him, I'm a vegan...." as she shoveled another traditionally baked cookie into her mouth.
So I guess all that is left to say is Congratulations Nathan!!! The world is a happy place when you find your people.

HonestyHelps said...

Sorry for the late post Anon, it got lost in the comments not for publication.

Felony, it is cruel to take on more animals than you can afford. There's more to pet ownership than feeding and sheltering. That crazy cat lady you knew, what if something happened to two or three of those cats and they needed thousands of dollars in vet services? Could she do that? And you can't put all your money into one animal and put the others in jeopardy if they need it and you don't have it.

HonestyHelps said...

You might find it hard to believe that the Whino actually said those things in the IndyBay article but, yes, indeed, he did and they are in his book. Maybe he has forgotten what he wrote, like he forgets the suffering his program causes.

pg 71 in his book he says domestic cats identical to wild cat
pg 73 he said outdoor cats are healthier than indoor. they do better outdoors.
pg 75 he makes the rabies comments, word for word.
pg 77 bird comments
pg 78 faulty biased research comment
pg 79 Nazi comment.

He says that the domestic cat is no different from it's wild ancestors, wrong again, Whino.

In her book, Maverick Cats, Ellen Perry Berkeley quotes Roy Robinson, a specialist in cat genetics, who explains how we have domesticated the cat over thousands of years and why the cat has become dependent on humans. First, he points out, cats retain juvenile characteristics that encourage dependency into adulthood. Second, they have a reduced adrenal response that requires them to be protected. Third, cats have undergone a reduction in brain size. "These changes are the changes of many generations and are not undone overnight," Berkeley says. "We may say that the feral cat has 'gone wild' or 'returned to the wild,' but this is not the same as being a wild animal."

In my opinion, the Whino stance can only bring more suffering to the cats. One really has to question his motivations for taking these sort of positions because it can only mean suffering if followed.

Anonymous said...

NOT FOR PUBLICATION

Honesty, private message to you.

I just wanted to tell you how amazing your pit attack blog is. The state index makes it incredibly easy to use. I am using it constantly and getting people to it all the time.

I will keep posting the link everywhere I go. I know that if more people visit it, things will change.

You are doing what these nutters fear the most, collecting and documenting the Truth!

HonestyHelps said...

Thanks, Anon, I accidently hit the publish button but it's a good comment and is appreciated.